masseffectfandomcom-20200222-history
Forum:The reapers are all about control, so...
...why was it a surprise to so many people that we only found out the why of the reapers when they chose to tell us? Not finding this out until the very end fits their method of operation. It makes no sense to assume that we would know anything about an enemy that operates this way unless they chose to reveal it to us. Based on the idea that the catalyst isn't telling us everything, this could have all happened before and the "shepard" of that time could have chosen something that explains why it's all happening again. Either way, when we found out that this was MUCH bigger than us, why was it surprising that it was revealed in the way it was? It's like people blame the catalyst as the reason for all of this when it's actually just another result of what the actual issue is. Organic life reaching the point in technological advancement where they create artificial intelligence. We found out that this was all the result of... life. Technology. Evolution. Limitations. Understanding and a lack thereof. All causing life forms in positions of power to make decisions on the behalf of others whether they like it or are aware of it or not. This is all that ever happens. There is nothing illogical about any of it. Anyone that's ever said "the story was never about organics vs synthetics" or "the story was never about a technological singularity" is only fooling themselves. We never knew what it was about. The enemy is about control and we knew next to nothing until the end because the enemy made it that way. It turned out to be about how the evolution of life hinges at the creation of artificial intelligence. Something that is extremely plausible considering the enemies are in fact, sentient machines. I think the wisest thing anyone can admit when it comes to life, is that they know pretty much nothing about it in the grand scheme of things. It was an almost humbling experience in a way. I found out that I was small, you were small, shepard was small, the life of this cycle was small. Now that's not to say the presentation of all of this wasn't potentially executed badly. The original ending was so vague that if they didn't expect a million questions to be asked, they were foolish. I would say that getting the info leviathan gave us AFTER the fact seems kind of backwards. But at the same time, again, this comes down to the way the reapers operate. The leviathan basically explained everything, so to get that beforehand and then run into the catalyst would have killed some of the impact of that final confrontation. Yet again, it was so vague that so many people jumped to what was pretty much the most negative conclusions about the catalyst. It's like everyone forgot that the enemies were machines. Meaning that someone had to create them, and with a purpose. That alone dictates a lot about what we were going to find out before we did. The active enemy being machines BEGS the question of their creators and the purpose for their creation to be asked. Fighting evil machines that are evil "just because" is the worst possible way of going about this because of that. That would be ignorance on the writers part or just plain lazy writing. As far as the whole "conventional victory" thing, we found out from the beginning(ME1 vigil conversation) that the reapers were AT LEAST millions of years old. While each cycle only sees 50 thousand years of technological advancement. That's like throwing a pebble at a tank and expecting to destroy it. In this case we are the ones throwing the pebble. Despite that, enough people wanted the option to refuse, it was given, but now they don't like the way it turned out despite what the story suggests. So now it's a "middle finger" from the writers. It ended exactly the way it should have considering the circumstances. Expecting anything else would be extremely unrealistic. It's like people wanted their cake and to eat it too, when they forgot about, never realized, or even never even considered the possibility that there was an extremely good chance that there was never any cake in the first place. While everything you are saying makes sense consider the following. It is the catalyst who explains everything and not the reapers. The Reapers were created by the catalyst, and the catalyst was created by the leviathan species. The catalyst also readily points out that because of your presence, that its solution, the Reapers, will no longer work. Which is where I have a problem. To explain we need to rewind things a little. After beating TIM, Shep and Anderson are side by side and Anderson tells you that he is proud of you and then dies. As Shep begins to drift out of consciousness Hackett contacts you to tell you that the crucible isn't working and that the problem is on your end. Shep the makes an effort to reach the console but collapses before reaching it. Shep, now unconscious, is raised up to meet with the catalyst. This brings into question everything the catalyst says, or the use of head canon to correct the flaws. This brings me back to the catalyst pointing out the need for a new solution, because the old one, Reapers, won't work anymore. The Reapers are doing fine in spite of your actions and the only reason you are in a position to change things is because the catalyst wanted it. In the game you are supposed to be the hero, not a mere pawn. Consider that a full play through will run to about 90 hours per character, start of ME through to end of ME3, that's a lot of time to find out you got jerked around. Also if you choose to reject the catalyst the solution works just fine, proving that the catalyst is lying. Another problem is that it follows more circular logic, organic life creates synthetic life which destroys the organics, or at least according to the catalyst. This is why organics are "preserved" in Reaper form so that they won't make synthetics and get themselves killed off. If synthetic life had wanted to exterminate organic life it would do so, organics are real easy to kill off. However if you played through the geth server mission you should know that this reasoning doesn't stand up to scrutiny as the quarians started the conflict and the geth let them survive rather than exterminate them. Again proving the false statements by the catalyst. In order for the end game to work you have to believe what the catalyst tells you, but everything points to it lying. The best lies always contain elements of the truth, makes them harder to disprove, which is why some of what it says is confirmed by other sources, but other parts don't match up with what you learn. Also consider that if you question the catalyst about synthesis, the option it wants most, you learn that it has been tried before and failed, calling into question the validity of the claim that you are the first organic to be in your position. If you can't trust what it tells you then you can't make an informed final choice. And if you can't do that what's the point in making it?--TSwiftFan1346 (talk) 06:52, November 17, 2013 (UTC)